possibility, i suppose. that is it for us toght, thank you for being with us. join us tomorrow. good night from new york. neil: all right, here is what i am saying at the white house. not who i'm inviting to the white house, that is what is going on. mark it down, nothing new, same old president, same old pals. the service employees international union, national education association, american federation of state county and municipal employees, center for american progress, and that is just half of thenion grps meeting withhe president today. it was rounded out by others who all might have wonderful ideas but when i cornered one earlier today on fox news ahead of the national education association about what touch i they might he

offered, what don't abort ideas they might have given the president, this tells you all you needed to know. look at this. neil: are you open to cutting anything? >> we have to look at the whole picture. neil: you want to leave medicare alone, don't want to touch medicaid, what are you going to give up? >> out of limits the tax cut for the wealthiest 1%. neil: he kept arguing in this iiterview for what is fair, in the name of fiscal fairness leaving aside those who pay no income taxes, not all their fault, i'm not going after soldiers, i'm not going after a series. that was just a few years ago. my pnt is, it has rocketed close to half the ameran people not paying any income tax at all. how did it get that high?

how did it get that hh? is the only ideas offered the name of fairness is to stick it to the rich re. these union guys meeting with the president, you can imagine they echoed th theme. there's nothing wrong with the president thanking those who returned him to office. there's everything wrong with giving the aparance that no one else really mattered. today's ceos are getting a chance tomorrow and reblican and democratic leaders later in the week but the fact of the matter is the opening tone, former ubs chairman. mort, i was talking during the break, i am not encouraged by the opening tone. >> so dismayed when the president made his previous speech in which he said he wou not accept any bill that didn't increase taxes on the wealthy.

neil: he kept it general, right? >> my views don't have a press conference. john boehner shouldn't have a press conference. get john boehner at a small group of congressman together and say whatan we work out? all we're doing is playing politics, everybody will get locked into one position or another, let's see what we can work out and then announce it is something we have agreed upon. that is the way you do it, instead you'rsteadier quebec thy politics that di't produce what we needed to have. neil: what worries me is this hope is dashed. >> they should have put together bipartisan group, all they're doing is put on defensive by the self-interest groups they are meeting with. does not make much sense.

neil: they made it very clear, nothing from us. and he owes them, right? >> they got him reelected. neil: time is urgent, timto say time is wasting. >> who didn't have to completely ignore the political thank you, but if you sttrt off and have couple of meetings with the leers of the democrats in the house and the republicans in the house and in the senate, and do it on a bipartisan basis. the only way it will get done any kind of a serious way. lou: do you think republicans have given up on this notion they can cobble something together? >> i don't kn the answer to that. if he thinks he can proceed without gaining cooperation of theepublicans, in the "wall street journal" he might be familiar with -- you pbably

get to it late in the day. mitch mcconnell was interviewed, a very good interview. he points out he has notad a meeting with the president in over a year and a half. the subject of a story in "the new york times" when the first 18 months of the present administration never had a one-onne meeting with him. i met with the house finance committee for five months a, they too had not had a meeting with the president. if you have none of that trust you can build up comic makes it so much more difficult. it is mysterious how this ma works s in terms of trying to gt anything. neil: i know what he's working on. i know he won the election, but people mistake a victory for a mandate today which is just about assembling a man cave. leaving thatside, people interpret too much from that and

both sides have to juggle here. >> if he is consistent with his pattern, we will have a problem. neil: he is not giving up on the x hike on the rich. is their flexibility? would he be open to eliminating deductions are closin were closg loopholes and l that? wod that cover, or as chuck schumer has indicated, do both, close their loopholes and raise their rates. double whammy. which is shocking for new york senator in the capital world. >> his own bipartisan commission igred. it is not perfect but it is a framework to begin. if i were the republican party, i would take initiative and gives recommendations as to what would be a balanced approach with revenue increases as well as reductions in expenses and kind of take initiative, because i don't think he will reach out.

by the same token, you have to get the approval of the house, and john boehner said will not raise rates. we will increase taxes to eliminating various special privileges and call them whatever you will. that is another approach to doing it, okay? what they have got to do, to not happen publicly because everybody is trying to hit the other peon. do it privately. but he will not have a private relations with these people. that is one of the problems of the presidency. the president has been very successful. at we really should be talking about, and it can republicans need to take the initiative, he came to me and said 500,000 who will raise your rates from 35 to 38, i'm okay with that. i want to see match reduction in expenditures and i would

leave the 250 people alone because many of those soul proprietorships, don't wt to put a lot of pressure on them. i don't know if they will. bona fide use problems with the situation unfortunately everyone i speak to, everything i've read to themselves as the smartest man at the table. if you're not going to listen, nobody has a patent on being right. he acts like he does. when he started health care, first thing he did, tort reform off the table. took it right off the table. neil: normally you would think he has no elections to worry about. he can be big, he can go beyond what he has done before. it is still early, way early. i don't see that right now. >> it is a little early to come to that conclusion, but normally you would have a situation in

his first term he would try to be constructive because that would have given him a better platform on which to run for a second term. you are not runninfor reelection. neil: a dozeof democratic senators who say we are, so n't you have to look after their interests which mark but forget the politics of it. neil: we ar we're beyond the rey of needing it. i don't thk that is sinking in. >> 's first term he could not run on records we had to run on ththese social issues facing the country. in my view the republins have not adjusted to the democracy of the electorate and they hav andt wells emphasized. neil: the reality is they're running with their tails between their legs feeling they were blown out in a landslide. the fact of the matter is theye the ones on defense, and the democrats are the ones saying not only the top rate, but get rid of deficits, we will nail ou to the wall.

and for the investment communi community, capital gains, dividends. >> his not inviting anybody from wall street. neil: the only financial figure ere tomorrow is american express. none of the others are invited. >> they are inviting people on alphabetical basis. neil: i am sure. when you did that endorsement, not endoingthe president, but mitt romney, is he very pro-obama town, did that ever? >> i did no could not think of n those terms. we endorsed oba the first time around. frankly i have been a democrat

my entire life. having said that, had enough exposure to the administration fairly close up to the president and his closest ae and they came to the conclusion that these people just don't know what they're doing. there is a sayi we have in canada but those that follow. if you're going to try cross-country skiing the first time, pick a small country. get somebody there who knows how to run something. unfortunately there is another one, if you can't put the puck in the net, get off the ice. neil: thank you, gentlem, all. i do think that crystallizes what is going on here when one sidean't even think.

they're seriousbout loopholes, just like ronald reagan and come away believing that ronald reagan did you would rather get most than risk not getting any. things were a lot better than ♪

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neil: did you take a look caterpillar stock today? jpmorgan downgraded, cut the price target was widely considered a global economic bellwether in part, not hol but in part because of concern over the ongoing energy policies, which it whole bunch of them think will be hurtfuto the s. interest levels with energy interests. not at all surprised by this development? >> no, really not. i find it ironic in the headlines we see we cld be

energy independent by 2020, at the same time caterpillar is being downgraded because of energy concerns. it seems this administration can't get out of its own way. i don't know whether i should laugh or cry when i see these things. neil: we don't know what they're whining about, we are big into for acting, franken is at a record high. they're getting fossil fuels a record high, read the details on what is on private land versus public land, but they say there's a policy of building results. you say what speak wit>> if it is a misrepre. said the gas prices woul have to go up to push forward green energy agenda. said cars are going to be twice the efficiency buying half as much gas but offered no real installation.

neil: mitt romney got a bad rap on his campaign, making energy such a prominent feature. if we get our energy act together, if we became self-sustaining energy, we are really off to the races. not only does that create jobs and make us a lot more independent, but we are firing on all soldiers with that, and that was an integral approach beyond taxes, budgetary issues. >> believe it is the patriotic thing to do. right now we're in the import of energy. by 2020 we could be a net exporter of energy. not only does that help us from economic standpoi creating hundreds of thousands, even millions of jobs, it also helps us in the national security standpoint so we are not taking

our money and sending it to people who don't like us. neil: so what are you doing these days? how are you playing this? defensively? how is your portfolio altered? >> neil, you've got to cover the downside of thi environment. they want them unprotected ainst losses. they're anticipating antibusiness climate, anticipating uncertainty pickling business contractions and so we're covering the downside making sure we're in a position where we can make money when the market is going up to be productive if the market is going down and lock it in on the way up. neil: what do you play besides lead futures and protecting us from nuclear fallout? >> there are thr ways to have your money completely protected against loss, fb fdic insurance.

they're gravitating towards the guaranteed conact because the principle is guarantee against losses and make it the spitting and that is the important thing to do. neil: thank you very, very much. you know, when we look at this whole health care law, some a deadline set, ick next year when you have to start getting everyone into the system and pay the search tax the rich will have to pay in order to continue sustaining it, there's a deadline coming on friday that almost no one is talng about. what if i told you it is potentially bigger than all those other ones coming up because it could decide the loss success or failure on it like nobody's business after this. 4g lte is the fastest.

so, whicsupeas4g lte service would yochoose, based on this chart ? don't rush into it, i'm not looking for the fastest answer. obviously verizon. okay, i have a different chart. goin way, does that make a difference ? lookt verizon. it's so much more than the other ones. sohat if we st changed the format altogether ? isn't that the exact same thing ? it's pretty clear. still sticking with verizon. verizon. more 4g lte coverage

than all other networks combined.

neil: it is really intrinsically health care law in health care exchanges that set up a lot of themomplaining this is hard to do, we can't do it right away. friday deadline for states to say whether they are there or not. telling the federal government where his state stands. governor, where do you stand on this, and whether you can move forward. >> we don't know the answer to all the questions we have asked about how the exchanges will be operated. we know they say when theyant an answer from us by the end of the week. republican governors are having a conference this week and i'm sure it will be one of the major topics of discussion.

neil: when they say they want an answer, what does that mean? they want to know how you are coming along, you have the power to opt out, what? speak what ey want to know whether or not we will set up a state exchange. that's a very difficult question to answer because it appears that all the flexibility that we originally thought we were going have has now vanished, which withouthe flexibility, don't see why states have any real incentive to do so. neil: is there anything compelling, i apologize up front, but is there anything to compel you tha you must be in this? >> well, there is only one provisn in it relates to whether or not if an individual buys insurance as it will be mandated to do, whether or not they will be elible for a failed subsidy unless if they bought it through a federal exchange as opposed to a state exchange. there is language that would indicate if they want it to a

federal exchange, they would not be entitled to a subsidy. but that really has to be clarified through the federal legislation. neil: you governors, you think about it, how a lot of power that isn't appreciated because while everybody looks at the supreme court's decision that essentially said yeah, you can't mandate able to get health insurance can be ultimately control how this is all set up, right? >> we do in terms of first of all deciding whether or not to operate a state exchange for individuals to purchase through it, but alsothe increased eligibility for medicaid itself in our state for example we would have been mandated prior to the supreme courto increase elility rules of the 138 the federal poverty level which had been50,000 population increase in medicaid rules, a huge increase. neil: bottom line with the president reelected and the

senate widening a couple of seats, this health care train is off and running, isn't it? >> it appears so. does the federal government has the ability to keep the trains running? their incentive to the states is not that great for them to be an acve participant, and if they're ing to assume 100% of the cost of medicaid expansion for the first three years, that is a huge expense to the federal government. if they will be serious about trying to balance the federal government adding tt kind of additional expenditure quite frankly doesn't seem to be very plausible. neil: governor, we will be watchi, sir. you're all familiar ifou have been watching television of hurricane cindy and the damage she wrote. an eye-popping $30 billion request for emergency relief

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neil: you never want to look further than a crisis. and you don't want to look heartless either. a lot of folks are scratching their heads and ndering about andrew cuomo is 30 billion-dollar requesto federal aid for hurricane sandy. a lot of flks want to know how he came with that figure and also how he would spend our figure. we have an appropriations committee member, john carter.

sir, i have seen myself what is going on around here. a lot of mage for it i don't know how you put a $30.000000000 figure to it. i would worry about how the money is going to the source. >> i think that is a good comment. we have to have compassion for those who were affected. i think everybody in congres does have compassion. but we have a responsibility that is even more so today than maybe in the past. we need to look at every nickel, dime and quarter to see how this money will be spent. that is a big number, and w need to work through the particulars. neil: again, i am robably a horrible sinner, but i am looking at the billion dollar deficit. and i'm thinking, well, what

will stop them from taking that money and using it for deficit relief? things that ha nothing to do with this one image. in other words, what kind of strings are attached out of washington for any of them. have you checked this? remark well, that's a difficult question. we have, in my understanding, around $7 billion from fema right now. there is an additional something like $5 billion that could be made available. we are heering a 30 billion-dollar ticket, right there, that raises a red flag. you just asked what is this for? it is about replacing the grid and i think that it's kind of a stretch. maybe they are using it to pay down their deficit spending.

that is not appropriat that is not what we are here for. we are not here to be a catchall for everything. we are here to help. ne: how does he get it? in other words coming as a democratic spending cut, a democratic friend of the president. is there much difficulty getting the money -- $30 billion -- how does the approval process go? >> he will be applying to fema. fema has $7 million available right now. neil: okay. >> so they will take action to approve the additional spending. and i think there is going to be real questions i'm asking for a blank check. so you have to tell us how this will be spent, and i think they will want to have some kind of oversight over it. we needo be looking closely. spending is part of our problem. it is a big part of our problem. and we have to be helpl and we

are not here to build a swimming pool when we lost is your proof. neil: congressman, thank you so much. paul ryan back in the nation's capital today. keep mind that he was still able to run for his congressional set. the house budget committee chairman again, he is going to contue being the loyal voice to the opposition. he, too, ii open to evenue. why alice rivlin does that can be the start of something good. she is next. with the spark cash card from capital one,

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♪ hah neil: alice rivlin is with us now. wonderful lady was with us last time, everything went one.

ms. alice rivlin, thank you for cong. >> want got to be very. neil: let's talk a little bit about what happens with the fiscal cliff. do you think we will avoid it? >> i think that it is important that we avoid it because it could throw us back into recession. but we don't need is a tax increase and deep spending cuts, which are just across the board, a crazy way to cut spending even if you want to cut spending. neil: direcr, i know they seem

like they cuts, but tenures curbing the growth, we just did the lexicon on? >> well, it depends what you're talking about. the immediate seuestration cuts would be an appropriations right away. but you are right that with respect to entitlements, what e need to be talking about is how to cut the growth. we will have a lot more people that are seniors that will have earnedbenefits that are in social security. those programs are going to go. but they can grow as fast as the production now, or we will have an ever rising debt. neil: there is that. i forgot about that. let me ask you, senator patty murray has raised the possibility is on one of the

weekend talk shows, i think -- republicans don't budge on his tax thing, thene will go ahead and, you know, we will pick u the pieces in the new year. what do you think about? >> well, i think that is -- i think it is a positn that democrats might take as a bargaining posion. but i certainly hope that it doesn't happen. neil: i think there are some political calculations to it. i heard some democrats tell me that there is -- there is a strategy that they readily grant, i ouldbe beneficial in a the lo term. would he make of it? >> well, as i said, i think it's a mistake. the reason i think so is two reasons. the first is that we have had relatively slow growth.

if we raise taxes and cut spending and a big wallop, then we risk of going back into recession. then you are in a no-win situation. you can't make progress on the dead if u are back in recession. the other thing is it makes our government will totally dysfunctional. neil: that's not exactly a fox news alert, right? >> right, but we have to stop. neil: wh would happen then if we got together and got a deal where we temporarily spend -- we avoid the cuts, maybe spend in the hopes that they will come back and put together real reform strategy. i mean, that is likely in one of my diet provinces. hope springs eternal, but it never comes to pasall the time. when the markets based on that and when they have to address a market meltdown? >> well, i don't know the

markets will do. but they will be pretty distressed if they went over the cliff, back into recession, dashed neil: so you think that'sa given? if we get the cliff, we are in a recession? >> i think it's very likely. the market reactiomight not be immediate. we have alady had some market reaction. possibly predicated on the expectation. but the main point is not the cliff per se, but that we have to get ourselves in he position for reducinthe growth of our debt over time. that is going to take some cooperation between the two parties. this is the great moment to do it. we just had a horrible election campaign in whh each side was blaming the other. but that is over. that is behind us. this is the moment together and solve the problem.

neil: you think that now is the time -- leaving aside taxes on the wealthy a whatev, but the number has somehow grown to a a certain level and is growing. be that as of it may, the combination of those tax hikes, a lot of investment related assets, it's goig to be a tough 2013 it all comes to pass. >> that is my point. we should not let that happen. we should do something better. i am not just for kicking the can down the road. [talking over each other] neil: i'm sorry, i wasn't clear. if we just raise the taxes on the wealthy, all the capitol gains related divinds and etc., not increasing for everybody, but that it could do

an economic center on us. >> there are lots of ways to change our tax codes. and i have been rather encouraged in the last two days, both by hearing paul ryan say that he was open to more revenues and john boehner said it as well. and the president has been also reaching across the aisle and alking about accommodations. neil: on te latter point, the person did say that there is a tax on the rich and they will veto it. >> he didn't say tax rates. the. neil: you are right. you just read my mmnd. >> it's pretty significant. neil: you are very right. do you think that wecan get past this immediate home, or the republicans, if they offer closg loopholes and deductions, that that will be enough to satisfy democrats,

many who say no, that's not good enough. the rates must go up. >> well, i think the important thing is to ave a progressiv tax system so that upper income people who have done very well in this economy while other people were not, ut i don't think you necessarily have to do it with the rates. you can do it wih, you know, reducing deductions, with all kinds of other things. and i thinthere is a possible deal here. but the really important deal is not this one. it's what we do about the tax codes generally and about entitlement. neil: you are probably one of the smartest people i have ever interviewed. i always come back to this iss that i have with you. on a personal basis. this idea that the rich, and maybe i am testing it, it's only

fair that they pay more. i think about the top 2% of a 40% of the taxes, and more of this government spending will be saled on them proportionately, because we blame ronald reagan, etc., we blame both to get to the point now where so many don't --you can't keep this going, can you? you cannot argue in the name of fairness that small portion to everything. >> well, i don't think it is a small portn. >> you always leave ou the payroll ta. >> 2% and 40%. >> they make a huge proportion. neil: you are okay with that?

>> what can't be denied is that over the last couple of decad, but particularly very recently, in comes at the very top, there is something in the top 1 has gone up very rapidly. and the rest of the country hasn't shared the growth. neil: so the only way is to tax them more? >> no, the only wato correct this is to hire people with better skills and better jobs earning more. that is the main pint. neil: y think the govnment can do that? >> ion't think the government alone can do that. but educatiowas a big part of it. neil: alise rivlin, alwa a pleasure. no technical problems at all

this time. we look forward to having you back. neil: david asman will be coming back next. ♪ buy 5-hour energy pink monade and ♪ ♪ you can help others along the way. ♪ ♪ a portion of every bottle that they sell goes to fight ♪ ♪reast cancer and i think that's swell. ♪ ♪ the more you take, the more they'll pay, ♪ ♪ so make them write a big check today. ♪ ♪ and if you're feeling a little slow, ♪ ♪ then 5- energy will help you go. ♪ ♪ so buy a bottle of pink lemonade and ♪ ♪ you can help fight breast cancer today. ♪

neil: we have some new faces in the next administration. we hav david axelrod leaving d tim geiter likely to follow. they can bvery consequential. we have david asman and dee dee with us.

to i think it will be more of the same. hope springs eternal andor example, erskine bowles has been thrown into the ring. now, he announced that he's leaving in january. lowering tax rates and increasing -- other words, he has to pay with a disqualification. neil: dee dee? >> i think he's going to keep it to the left. a lot of people, they are there for 14 months and thenove on. that is the average time for a white house staffer. so it would be good for them to have change. that is a hethy thing. neil: you just switch the pace settings. they just want to make their own

mark. >> president obama is consumed with wantingo make a difference and he has done so. changing the economy through obamacare,. [talng over each other] alking over each other] >> as he told his russia friend, you haven't seen anything yet. neil: bipartisanship reaching t, you don't thinthat's a real? >> again, i don't want to rule out the possibility. i think we will see lot by who plac tim geithner. if he does, he will rely on the business and so forth. but look at what happens. >>e has his friends in there. [talking over each other] >> forgive me, but does anyone believe that a an organization like moveon.org -- [talking over each other] neil: we have the education union president on here and i asked him to make one

concession. [talking over each othe neil: they thought it was in regards to this teaching thing. it was being translated to stking it to the rich. not all people are disproportionate and int the government in that way. >> isn't it time to man up? they didn't lose it by landslide. >> therere certain things that the democrats and republicans agree on. onis that we have to grow more. this growth rate is not acceptable.

the point is that we don't grow, we will have to face it somehow. [talking over each other] >> they are going to say, oh sorry. i can't do iall the way. >> they will have an entire showdown. >> you invited me. >> you don't think they are really moving abroad? >> i think we see a slowdn of economy, for example, if we go into a recession, a lot of people think that we may go into recession in the next year. you will see governors. one thing is that we don't have enough revenue coming in because of the slowness of the economy. democrats and republics agree. if you grow the economy committee will have mo revenue coming in because there will be more economic activity.

it will come with higher taxes and -- [talking over each other] neil: well, i don't know. neil: well, i don't know. neil: all 4g lte is the fastest. so, which supeast 4g lte service would yochoose, based on this cht ? dot rush into it, i'm not looking for the fastest answer. obviously verizon. okay, i have different chart. going that way, does that make a difference ? look at verizon. it's so much morethan the other. so what we just changed the format altogether ? isn't that the exact same thing ? it's pretty clear. still sticking with verizon. verizon. more 4g lte coverage th all other networks combined.

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